Wolfran said: http://forums.nrvnqsr.com/showthread.php/1771-TYPE-MOON-FES-10TH-ANNIVERSARY-EVENT?p=852474&viewfull=1#post852474 HF True - “hypocrisy”; HF Normal - “the natural conclusion” Nasu: Simple. I decided the story would unfold like this when I first started, and the characters would serve the theme of the story. It was only natural the story would end like this. Really, that was it. In fact, I thought the Normal End was the natural conclusion of Sakura Route. In the draft, the Normal End was the True End. ... Nasu: Yes. It (Normal End) was the only conclusion considered at the time. However, after writing about 2/3 of it, I found that the story itself did not allow such a conclusion. After that, I wrote the original conclusion, and then followed the story and write the happy end. Since this was Shirou's tale of happiness after losing so much, even if Sabre and Ilya were lost, at least he should let Sakura achieve happiness. And this was the conclusion. Even though Sakura indirectly became a mass murderer, there was no reason to deny her of happiness. I came up with this idea that if one were alive, it was not bad to redeem him/herself while looking forward to happiness. Even though this was hypocrisy, I felt that the story itself strongly demanded this possibility. To be honest, it was the first time that I lost to the story I wrote. Honestly, with how much relevance to the story Sakura has prior to HF, Nasu might have as well cut her completely and made the route about Illya and the grail. That way there would be a lot less issues with the plot. Or made her into full-time villian without unnecessary pity. So, he found normal end to be shit and decided to write better end... good to know :D also '' Even though Sakura indirectly became a mass murderer, there was no reason to deny her of happiness. I came up with this idea that if one were alive, it was not bad to redeem him/herself while looking forward to happiness.'' good stuff for upcoming HF wars. |
Even though Sakura indirectly became a mass murderer, there was no reason to deny her of happiness. I came up with this idea that if one were alive, it was not bad to redeem him/herself while looking forward to happiness. Even though this was hypocrisy, I felt that the story itself strongly demanded this possibility. To be honest, it was the first time that I lost to the story I wrote. I'm sorry, Nasu, but this is some major bullshit right there. |
astroprogs said: Even though Sakura indirectly became a mass murderer, there was no reason to deny her of happiness. I came up with this idea that if one were alive, it was not bad to redeem him/herself while looking forward to happiness. Even though this was hypocrisy, I felt that the story itself strongly demanded this possibility. To be honest, it was the first time that I lost to the story I wrote. I'm sorry, Nasu, but this is some major bullshit right there. It's Nasu, what do you expect beside Paradoxes and double meanings? :p Altough i agree a little with the first part, because it mostly wasn'T Sakura's Fault. (Keyword: indirectly) Honestly, the more i read the more i am convinced that stuff about Illya, Holy Grail, True End and 3rd Magic where all cut From Illya's Route, while Sakura's Route would've concentrated more on Avenger (and little more Sakura characterization?) |
| Nasu kinda butcher it and I think CCC would have been what Nasu was trying to portray about Sakura. All that said and done HF although is a mixture of this and that still consider Sakura route for me. |
| If we got an ending similar to Normal, but with a Kirei and Illya closure, i'll consider the trilogy the definitive version of HF. True is just... too out of place compared to the rest of the route. Also, Nasu, you're full of bullshit. Illya was the one who deserved the most happiness, man ;_; |
I kinda agree with this tbh. Even tough HF true is my fav. end (from all 6 FSN non Bad-ends), it kinda felt a little too happy for my taste (especially with Rider surviving). The question is, how can you fit Illya in Normal End without making her sacrifice look worthless? Suggestions like "make Shirou only live for a (very) short amount of time" make the sacrifice, and all the talk about 3rd Magic seem useless. |
astroprogs said: Even though Sakura indirectly became a mass murderer, there was no reason to deny her of happiness. I came up with this idea that if one were alive, it was not bad to redeem him/herself while looking forward to happiness. Even though this was hypocrisy, I felt that the story itself strongly demanded this possibility. To be honest, it was the first time that I lost to the story I wrote. I'm sorry, Nasu, but this is some major bullshit right there. You think Shirou's conclusion at the end of UBW is BS as well? |
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Wolfran said: @astroprogs I think they should empathize on family matter more as there is no time to build up romance in 90 minutes. It might even save their relationship for viewers. CCC is the moment when you realize how much potential Sakura had and how it all got washed down the drain in stay night. She still might not even be the most likable character to some but her arc is good enough to carry that game. The normal ending was similar to ataraxia just with Sakura in Avengers place while the true had BB with Illya's ending in HF true. This reminds me of the discussions before ufoUBW. A lot of discussions and great ideas surfaced and hopes and expectations got raised, then the actual show happened lol Better stop thinking about it too much TBH, so whatever they do will seem decent/great. Wolfran said: I liked her a lot more as a villian. But wasn't she actually kind of trying to hold it all back or something? I think Illya was talking about that. If anything I started strongly disliking her after Saber died and she was like 'isn't it good' and all that. But when she went full evil and stopped playing good innocent character it got better in my eyes. Especially the voice. The "Femme Fatale" scene was the moment my hatred for Sakura was on full throttle. Come on, mini-Zouken, calm down. Wolfran said: AM uses HF to get incarnated because he's a wish. It's just that it would be on the scale of Ataraxia maybe and even there he had Bazzet to wish upon him. It was already after the Greater Grail was destroyed. But on a big scale he needs the Greater Grail. Otherwise he's weak. Avenger himself is a grail in ataraxia apparently. I think it's probably isn't that he's capable of sorcery but that he is embodiment of it. Kind of like doll-Shirou in HF true. He's embodiment of it but he can't use it. He's a product of the sorcery, like i said, then. "Embodiment" means that he's it, and Avenger is clearly not that. His nature as a wish enabled him to use the grail, not the sorcery itself. In HA, Wolfran said: Not to the extent of ataraxia where every time Sakura appears there has to be a joke about them being married but there still is some most of the times she appears. Some of the scenes are not in LP but basically even if you chose to ignore Sakura in the morning like in UBW anime then we still have Shirou say some of the stuff he does here. It just doesn't have her cg for all I remember. http://lparchive.org/Fatestay-night/Update 07/ Hmmm. Can't remember that TBH and it's good if t's there, but it seems so miniscule to leave an impact compared to Shirou's reactions to Rin. Nope. |
| wait the movie is in 2017 but Wars' started already? |
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astroprogs said: Well, Heaven's Feel was never Sakura's route exclusively. She's the love interest and a pushing force for Shirou, yes, but that's just one side of HF. HF was supposed to be two separate routes, one for Sakura and the other one for Illya, but Nasu had to merge the two and rewrite it due to time constraints. If you look at it from this angle, for a route that's titled Heaven's Feel that goes all in about the grail, it's mechanics and history, Sakura is kinda the one who's being shoehorned in. This as much of an Illya route as much as a Sakura route, and if they cut Illya's scenes, then why would the route even be called Heaven's Feel? Heaven's Feel is literally Illya. This argument is way overused. Honestly, I never understood why the MAL Fate fandom cannot admit that Illya is merely a side character of Heaven's Feel and by extension, the VN as a whole. HF's chief focus is and always will be Shirou's romance with Sakura and how that affects his psyche in the context of the Holy Grail War. The detailed truth behind the Grail System and the Einzbern's wish is only given to us so we can fully comprehend what is happening to Sakura. Regardless of Nasu incorporating elements of Illya's story into the route, this is Sakura' route and Skura's exclusively, despite whatever clever argument you attempt to conjure up. SherouOfJustice said: In fact I think focusing more on her suffering is the opposit of what needs to be done. I hated her character because her suffering was all she ever was. I had to constantly roll my eyes because of the constant pity party being thrown for her. That's why I liked 3rei's Sakura and HA Sakura so much better. She was more than a passive damsel in distress with a dark side, but an actual character with volition. Now obviously she can't be HA Sakura because HA Sakura already resolved her issues, and she can't exactly be 3rei Sakura because the situation is different, but there are dfinitely ways to make her more human and relateable than adding more "oh woe is me" . Again, this is what I just can't comprehend. How can not sympathize with Sakura, much less hate her? From the very beginning, she was in a situation she couldn't control, and her behavior throughout the entire route is merely reflective of that, including her descent towards her more dark persona. How many other characters act in "irrational" ways but are forgiven, while Sakura is always hated? Blatant double standards. Wolfran said: I think their romance in concept was the strongest but yet again was a failure of execution just like Sakura herself. I really don't want it to look like this: 'senpai not that you know how shit my life was up until now you pity me, right?' 'of course, now I pity you enough to trash my ideals for you! and kill people too' It kind of shits all over previous routes. Considering some of the depth you yourself covered in your previous posts, I fail to comprehend how you could view their romance in such a insignificant light. It was Sakura and only Sakura that was able to lead Shirou to a decision the entire VN was building up to: the abandonment of his ideals. You must also consider that Sakura selflessly never wanted him to give up those ideals for her sake, but her connection to him was so strong by that point that he was compelled to do it. Wolfran said: It's still her fault in a way. Responsibility lies on her. As I stated above, she was put into a situation she couldn't control, so anything she committed as a result of that situation was not and never will be her fault. There is no responsibility to be borne. |
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This is the Holy Waifu War. |
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| Hey, i saw the 2nd and 3rd movie list as 2hours, is it confirmed or MAL just puts random number? |
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Xilly said: Hey, i saw the 2nd and 3rd movie list as 2hours, is it confirmed or MAL just puts random number? Just use the common philosophy of "link or it didn't happen". |
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CherryLover said: This argument is way overused. Honestly, I never understood why the MAL Fate fandom cannot admit that Illya is merely a side character of Heaven's Feel and by extension, the VN as a whole. HF's chief focus is and always will be Shirou's romance with Sakura and how that affects his psyche in the context of the Holy Grail War. The detailed truth behind the Grail System and the Einzbern's wish is only given to us so we can fully comprehend what is happening to Sakura. Regardless of Nasu incorporating elements of Illya's story into the route, this is Sakura' route and Skura's exclusively, despite whatever clever argument you attempt to conjure up. If that is true, why did we get those long scenes of Shirou talking to Illya and discovering a lot of things about her and Kiritsugu that adds a lot to their relatonship, but adds absolutely nothing to Shirou and Sakura's relationship or any info about the grail? Every route of the VN does NOT have a single focus. Fate had Saber, a bit of Illya, a bit of Rin and the world building. UBW had Archer, Rin, Shirou and a small bit of Caster. HF had Sakura (and the matous), Illya and Kirei. The Rin and Illya bits didn't add anything to Saber and Shirou's relationship in Fate. Caster's bit didn't add anything to Shirou and Rin's relationship or Shirou and Archer's struggle (as in, you know, the entire point of the route). Illya and Kirei's bits, once again, add nothing to Shirou and Sakura's relationship, but more towards the theme of the route. F/SN is a complex world with many characters with different pasts and agendas. If each route was about only one aspect with a single focus, then it would have been really shallow compared to past Nasu works. |
Emirius said: Needs more Kirei. He is way more badass in HF. There will be riots if they turn him into a supporting character. Well said, good sir. Your support of the Church is much appreciated. |
TohsakaShinji said: CherryLover said: This argument is way overused. Honestly, I never understood why the MAL Fate fandom cannot admit that Illya is merely a side character of Heaven's Feel and by extension, the VN as a whole. HF's chief focus is and always will be Shirou's romance with Sakura and how that affects his psyche in the context of the Holy Grail War. The detailed truth behind the Grail System and the Einzbern's wish is only given to us so we can fully comprehend what is happening to Sakura. Regardless of Nasu incorporating elements of Illya's story into the route, this is Sakura' route and Skura's exclusively, despite whatever clever argument you attempt to conjure up. Right dear. Thank you for writing such a detailed response as to why you think best girl is a side character. Now let me educate you on what is an actual side character. Therefore, as according to my detailed analysis on Matou Sakura, she is a side character. QED. I won't even bother explaining the reality of the situation to you, since you are obviously attempting to goad a reaction out of me. Worm memes? How original. You are going to have to try a bit harder than that. Your pathetic attempts at trolling have already been made apparent by your Illya thread, I must say. In any case, I have no desire to derail the thread at hand. Have fun, troll. |
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Now back to the REAL topic (not everyone's favorite war) Does everyone think that this pacing would be the best??? I like the ending's to this one but it feels like movie 1 will have a lot cramed into 2 hours. (just guessing at the length) |
| [url=http://myanimelist.net/animelist/QcK_Dagger_HeaT&sclick=1][IMG] |
QcK_Dagger_HeaT said: Now back to the REAL topic (not everyone's favorite war) Does everyone think that this pacing would be the best??? I like the ending's to this one but it feels like movie 1 will have a lot cramed into 2 hours. (just guessing at the length) I see no error with much being crammed into the final movie. After all, the final two days of HF were loaded with much material by their nature. |
Wolfran said: I hope they'll cram in every single of Sakura and Senpai cooking scenes and add a few original ones. Might as well cut Illya's scenes a long the way. They should make 'I'll protect Sakura' scene in the kitchen as well. Preferably while cooking. And no Illya. Who cares about her anyway. After the cooking show movies outsell Evangelion and LoveLive they'll change Ataraxia's story to be only about Senpai and his lovely Sakura cooking whole day every day. This improved version of HF and HA will surely change history more than Gilgamesh or Solomon did in the Age of Gods. I agree with cutting Illya's scenes, but I think there's no need to add more original scenes. The VN has already given a perfectly paced set of scenes that build up Shirou and Sakura's romance. Any more and it would be padding. |
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Wolfran said: CherryLover said: I agree with cutting Illya's scenes, but I think there's no need to add more original scenes. The VN has already given a perfectly paced set of scenes that build up Shirou and Sakura's romance. Any more and it would be padding. No, I insist that they add more. UBW had almost 30 episodes of nice anime-original content(like a whole episode of caster's previous master instead of Shirou's stupid monotone monologues) and pretty backgrounds while HF should be about the most important thing - cooking. Adding newer cooking recipes wouldn't hurt, the novel is a decade old eroge, they gotta show how much Nasu improved in cooking. I think that might be a bit too extreme, personally. I respect your opinion though. There aren't many of us around here who would willingly divert belligerence from Sakura onto other more deserving factors in a show. |
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Wolfran said: @CherryLover Director is a Sakrafag for a reason. I bet he's a chief himself. New cooking scenes are going to be gorgeous. I can't wait myself. These movies will be great! :) |
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Wolfran said: TohsakaShinji said: Mapo tofu scene. Please show the true greatness of the Mapo. The world needs to know of this delicacy :3 Mapo Tofu is still cooking. Approved! We'll even get to see it already in the first movie. The fact we will be able to see such glory animated so early already bolsters my hope in seeing a good adaptation. |
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